EPISODE 069 | Learning in Context: Two-Eyed Seeing & Perinatal Health

You don’t need to know everything in order to begin. Today’s episode offers a window into the inner shifts that happen when practitioners stop leading with expertise alone and start leading with curiosity, humility, and a willingness to learn.

Drawing from several years of working alongside Indigenous organizations, Melissa reflects on how Indigenous teachings, community partnerships, and her graduate studies in adult education have threaded together to reshape her approach to learning and program design. She explores the transformative impact of Two-Eyed Seeing, a Mi’kmaq guiding principle that invites us to hold Indigenous and Western ways of knowing together, for the benefit of all. 

Key Topics:

✨ Why Land Acknowledgments Matter
Not as scripted statements, but as invitations to recognize place, history, responsibility, and relational learning.

✨ Cultural Humility as a Practice - Not a Destination
Melissa shares moments of discomfort, vulnerability, and the learning that unfolded when she stepped into Indigenous programming not as an expert, but as a guest.

✨ Facilitating based on Community, not Content
How the programs you’ve created in the past can continue to evolve toward a more culturally responsive, community-led approach.

✨ Two-Eyed Seeing (Etuaptmumk)
How this Indigenous teaching has become a central lens in Melissa’s practice, shaping how she blends Western research, community voice, and Indigenous knowledge into her work.

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⏩ Up Next

Melissa introduces the Sustainable Capacity Operating System, a framework of learning and leadership shaping her next chapter.

Thank you for listening - and for being part of this conversation about learning, community-rooted practice, and doing this work with integrity - especially in cross-cultural contexts. 

— Melissa & the OTGR Podcast Team

Transcript

Melissa LaPointe [00:00:03 - 00:00:45]

Welcome to the OTs Gone Rogue podcast. I'm your host, Melissa Lapointe. Over the years, I've worked closely with thought leaders, changemakers, and OTs who are ready for something more. And now I'm inviting you behind the curtain where you'll hear stories about overcoming adversity, challenging the status quo, and finding the courage to do things differently. Let's dive in. Welcome back everyone to another episode of the OT's Gone Rogue podcast. We are on the 3rd episode of this relaunch series. And if you've been tuning in, you've probably noticed the tone is a little different from some of our past episodes.

Melissa LaPointe [00:00:46 - 00:01:45]

These ones are more reflective, more intentional. And yes, a little more academic. If you haven't listened to either of the last 2 episodes, here's a short synopsis of what's going on. So I am currently in the process of completing my Master of Adult Education with a concentration in health. The course that we're just wrapping up this semester focuses on continuing professional education. For our final assignment, we were asked to develop a future-oriented professional development plan that critically reflects on our growth over time. Alongside the written submission, our professor invited us to create an artistic artifact, something that brings our learning to life in a way that feels authentic. So I decided to integrate the podcast with the requirements of my final assignment.

Melissa LaPointe [00:01:46 - 00:03:13]

Across 6 episodes— so we've already done 2— Then we have today and then 3 more to go. I am bringing you behind the scenes of the frameworks, transitions, and lived experiences that have shaped my work as a therapist, a program designer, an adult educator, and an entrepreneur. And today I want to talk about something that changed the way I think about education, leadership, and what it means to support women and families. especially in the prenatal and postnatal space. This episode isn't about business development or going from clinician to coach or CEO mindset. It's about how we learn when we step into cultural contexts that aren't our own and what it means to facilitate learning without assuming expertise. We're going to talk about cultural humility, Relational learning, and a framework that has quietly lived at the heart of my work for more than a decade, Strong Beginnings. I'm going to share how my experience facilitating prenatal and postnatal programming for an Indigenous organization deepened the way I think about program design, adult education, and what families need in order to thrive.

Melissa LaPointe [00:03:15 - 00:04:02]

But before we go any further, I want to take a moment and talk about land acknowledgments. If you're tuning in from across Canada or from places like Australia, New Zealand, or parts of the United States, you've likely encountered land acknowledgments in some form. They're practices where we name and recognize the Indigenous nations whose lands we live on, work on, or benefit from. They're not meant to be ceremonial. They're not an opening prayer or a statement of virtue. They're a moment to locate ourselves historically, ethically, and relationally in relationship with the land.

Melissa LaPointe [00:04:04 - 00:04:09]

But I didn't grow up with land acknowledgements. They weren't part of my earlier education.

Melissa LaPointe [00:04:10 - 00:04:12]

They weren't part of my clinical training.

Melissa LaPointe [00:04:14 - 00:04:20]

There was never a framework provided to me for how I should approach them or what I should say.

Melissa LaPointe [00:04:22 - 00:05:25]

I've lived in British Columbia for over 20 years now, specifically in the Cariboo-Chilcotin region. And here, land acknowledgements are now woven into community life. public events, ceremonies, local government meetings, nonprofit work, and so many of the gatherings I've been a part of. And even before I fully understood the practice, I was surrounded by it. And over time, I understood why they mattered. But sometimes it still felt like something that people were checking off the housekeeping list at the beginning of an event, a statement that was made quickly without intention behind it. Then I began my Master of Adult Education at St. Ibex, and land acknowledgments shifted from something I witnessed to something I was expected to engage with.

Melissa LaPointe [00:05:26 - 00:06:13]

They showed up in our readings, in classroom discussions, and in the ways different instructors modeled them. Some of our professors grounded their acknowledgments in identity and positionality. Some invited reflection on history and harm. Others emphasized community relationships and shared responsibility. In our very first course for the program, we got the syllabus. I saw that we were each asked to take a turn and open class with a land acknowledgement. So I think there were 4 of us for each class that had to go. So we had to submit it not on paper, but we had to deliver it.

Melissa LaPointe [00:06:13 - 00:06:52]

We had to speak it out loud to our colleagues. And that assignment forced me to face a truth that I had been quietly avoiding. I didn't know how to do this well. And I really didn't want to get it wrong. Not because I was worried about a grade, not because I disagreed with the practice, but because I didn't want to do harm. I worried about mispronouncing a nation's name. I worried about saying the wrong thing. I worried it would sound generic or worse, performative.

Melissa LaPointe [00:06:53 - 00:07:24]

But I did something that made a huge difference. I put my discomfort aside and I asked for help. I am very fortunate that through one of my programs, through some of my work at that time, I had access to a cultural ambassador within a local Indigenous organization. So I scheduled a time to meet with him and I shared not only the assignment, but the worries and the questions that I had sitting underneath that assignment.

Melissa LaPointe [00:07:25 - 00:07:41]

He didn't hand me a script. He didn't coach me on pronunciations. He asked me questions about where I live, where I come from, who I serve, and what my connection is to the land.

Melissa LaPointe [00:07:43 - 00:07:47]

The conversation that ensued helped me understand something deeper.

Melissa LaPointe [00:07:48 - 00:08:22]

A land acknowledgement isn't about flawless execution. It isn't about getting it right. It's about being honest with where you stand and recognizing the communities who cared for these lands long before you arrived and who continue to live here today. That conversation moved me out of performance and into humility. And with that in mind, here is the acknowledgement that I shared in class, offered here in the same spirit for today's podcast episode.

Melissa LaPointe [00:08:24 - 00:09:08]

I reside within the Secwépemc traditional territory that neighbors the Ql'q̱əḻq̱əm̱, also known as Williams Lake First Nation, and the Hachul First Nation, or Soda Creek. I also have the privilege of living, working, and facilitating programs for women and families across Tŝilhqot'in communities and Williams Lake. These aren't just names on a map. They are relationships. They're stories. They're families still healing from the impacts of residential schools, child apprehension, and systemic violence. And I'm still learning. I'm still learning how to speak about this respectfully.

Melissa LaPointe [00:09:09 - 00:09:49]

And I know that I'm still going to make mistakes. I'm going to mispronounce names. I'll get mixed up on what I meant to include and when these land acknowledgments are meant to take place. But I've learned that silence is not humility. Silence is avoidance. So I'm sharing this not to claim fluency, but to honor the communities who have shaped my work. And that shift toward humility changed how I showed up in the programs I was facilitating and the communities I served. This is part of my commitment to ongoing learning.

Melissa LaPointe [00:09:51 - 00:09:52]

So let me share more.

Melissa LaPointe [00:09:54 - 00:10:52]

A few years ago, I stepped into a mentorship role with a local Indigenous organization working with their early years team. Eventually, that evolved into more program development with a focus on prenatal and postnatal health. There was no curriculum waiting for me when I stepped into that role, no binder of lesson plans, no checklist of approved topics, no systems or workflows on program delivery. It was prenatal and postnatal health in real time with real families whose needs and lived experiences did not fit into handouts, Or bullet points. I would try to plan for delivery of a curriculum, but no session was ever the same. No group class was ever the same. And that became the first lesson, not for my clients, but for me as a facilitator.

Melissa LaPointe [00:10:53 - 00:10:57]

My role wasn't to be the expert.

Melissa LaPointe [00:10:57 - 00:10:59]

My role was to hold space.

Melissa LaPointe [00:11:01 - 00:11:54]

I wasn't there to deliver information. I was there to facilitate learning in community contexts where culture, family, support networks, and lived experience all shaped how people prepare for birth and early parenthood. The session plan was never the point. The people in the room were the point. From that moment forward, every group became less about presenting content And more about designing a learning experience with the people in front of me, not for them, and definitely not at them. This is where Strong Beginnings became an essential piece of the puzzle. For many of you listening, you already know parts of its history. I've spent a lot of time on this podcast talking about Strong Beginnings.

Melissa LaPointe [00:11:55 - 00:13:20]

It was my first business. my clinic space for prenatal and postnatal health. It began as a way of bringing neurobiology, trauma-informed practice, integrative health, and biomechanics into a real-world prenatal-postnatal context. In those early years, Strong Beginnings wasn't a curriculum, but it was a roadmap based on the 6 guiding principles that helped me stay grounded when I was still figuring out how to support prenatal-postnatal Those 6 guiding principles were simple yet powerful: move, breathe, feel, relax, connect, and play. These weren't modules or lesson plans. They were anchors, simple words with deep meaning. Especially in the nervous system lens that I was working from. They helped me design sessions that could flex with whatever walked through the door: anxiety, a lack of social support, a difficult pregnancy, a history of trauma, housing instability, or a family that simply needed to be welcomed, And seen.

Melissa LaPointe [00:13:22 - 00:14:44]

Over time, Strong Beginnings evolved. It became a framework. So it went from my private practice to a framework and a course and then a program that I use to teach other OTs how to bridge occupational therapy with perinatal health, not as a set of slides or handouts, but as a way of thinking about safety, Nervous system regulation, and community-based learning. And when I stepped into Indigenous community programming, Strong Beginnings shifted again. It became not so much something to deliver, but it once again became my guide, my roadmap. It was a way to show up, to facilitate, and to meet people where they were without imposing the right way. To go a little bit more into that, earlier this year, I was deep in my academic work on cultural safety and how adults learn in complex environments. And it was around this time, I think it was around February of 2025, that I encountered the Mi'kmaq principle or the Mi'kmaq guiding principle known as Two-Eyed Seeing, or Atwaptmunk.

Melissa LaPointe [00:14:45 - 00:16:16]

Two-Eyed Seeing was first articulated by Elder Albert Marshall, a respected Mi'kmaq elder from Unama'ki, also known as Cape Breton Island. Alongside his partner, Merdina Marshall, they shared this teaching as a way to bring Indigenous and Western knowledge together without collapsing one into the other. Two-Eyed Seeing teaches us to see from one eye with the strengths of Indigenous knowledge, and from the other eye with the strengths of Western knowledge, and to use both eyes together for the benefit of all. It's not a theory to apply. It's an orientation, a way of moving through relationships and responsibilities with humility. In critical adult education, I was studying that knowledge is not neutral, that lived experience shapes how learning unfolds, that history and power matter, that context is not an accessory, it's the container, that wisdom isn't transactional, It's relational. And suddenly I had this light bulb moment as I was preparing for this term paper that I was writing. I was already living many of these principles in the rooms I was facilitating for prenatal, postnatal health.

Melissa LaPointe [00:16:17 - 00:17:13]

Two-eyed seeing reminded me that I didn't need to abandon my Western knowledge or impose it. I could offer it. I could hold it alongside other ways of knowing. My background in neurobiology, integrative health, trauma, biomechanics, pelvic health, and adult learning— this all mattered. I had something to contribute. And so did the teachings of aunties, partners, Sisters, grandmothers, and knowledge keepers. Two-eyed seeing didn't make me a better teacher, but it did help me become a more respectful facilitator. When I look back on those months of facilitating in community, I am so grateful I had access to all the resources and content in my Strong Beginnings program.

Melissa LaPointe [00:17:15 - 00:18:27]

There were core parts of that framework that held steady. The nervous system lens, the 6 principles, the importance of safety and regulation, the role of connection— those didn't need to change. What softened, though, was the position of privilege I had unconsciously carried, the assumption that the women coming through the door that I was supporting would have access to resources, stable housing, and support systems. At one point, I believed my role as a facilitator was to deliver the right information, to teach wellness, and to optimize outcomes. But in reality, many families were navigating life circumstances that called for connection, safety, and dignity before anything else. So I began designing spaces that allowed people to access their own capacity, their own wisdom, their own community. The wisdom wasn't mine to impose. It was already in the room.

Melissa LaPointe [00:18:28 - 00:18:32]

And Two-Eyed Seeing gave me language for that.

Melissa LaPointe [00:18:33 - 00:18:38]

So moving forward, I'm still rebuilding an updated version of the Strong Beginnings program.

Melissa LaPointe [00:18:40 - 00:18:46]

Not because it was wrong, but because over time and with experience, it's matured.

Melissa LaPointe [00:18:48 - 00:19:09]

The 6 anchors remain. The neurobiology lens remains. The respect for adult learning remains. What's evolving is how it will be held in community, in dialogue. In spaces where culture and context matter as much as content.

Melissa LaPointe [00:19:10 - 00:20:01]

I no longer see Strong Beginnings as something to deliver. I definitely don't see it as a self-paced program. It's something to facilitate with clinicians, with coaches, with therapists who want to build programs that honor real women, And real families in real communities. Strong Beginnings will return. It will make a comeback. And when it does, it will be shaped by the same humility that reshaped my practice. So as we wrap this episode up, if there's one thing I hope you take from today, it's this: you don't have to have every answer before you show up. You simply need to be willing to keep learning.

Melissa LaPointe [00:20:03 - 00:20:14]
 
All right. Thanks for tuning in today, everyone. We are only just getting started with this launch series. So stay with me. More is coming. I'll see you in the next episode.